MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Same Sex Marriage
Interview
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MATTHEWS: Well, joining me right now is Steve Elmendorf, who`s chairman of the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund -- he`s also a Democratic strategist -- and U.S. Congressman Mark Pocan, who`s a Democrat of Wisconsin, where today, Republican governor Scott Walker threw in the towel. He conceded the battle over gay marriage. He said it`s (INAUDIBLE) quote, "For us, it`s over in Wisconsin."
Congressman, what do you make of that sort of like throwing the sword over, turning the sword over in this battle by the governor?
REP. MARK POCAN (D), WISCONSIN: Well, you know, all year, he`s been fighting this, taking this to every level to try to fight the court decision that said it was unconstitutional to not allow marriage equality. But now he`s listening to the Supreme Court. This is a good thing.
And while we`ve had a really big victory today for a lot of people across the country, we can`t spike the ball yet. There`s still a lot we have to do around employee non-discrimination, making sure that kids don`t commit suicide and have higher levels of homelessness, LGBT youth. A lot of work still to do, but this is a big victory.
MATTHEWS: Well, just following up on that logic, for a gay kid who believes he`s gay, say, in his young teenage years, when it comes to him or her, the knowledge that marriage is now equal, that you can have a same-sex marriage -- will that alleviate that pressure of social isolation?
POCAN: You know, it`s a huge thing because we all know -- people go to weddings. You know what people are who are married. You know what families are. And when you`ve got that definition allowing all people to be treated equally under the law, that really defines all treatment equal under the law. So it`s really a big thing for that youth who`s facing these troubles.
But you know, we`ve still got work to do, but this is certainly a huge victory today.
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MATTHEWS: Congressman, thank you for joining us tonight. I haven`t had you on before.
Tell me how you think this is working with your colleagues. When you wander through the Democratic Cloakroom, I`m sure that`s more hospitable, but either cloakroom. Do you have a sense that your colleagues know that this is the future, if not the present?
POCAN: No question.
You know, I think people are realizing that hate doesn`t sell anymore. When Scott Walker and Michele Bachmann are saying this isn`t an issue, I think we have reached that threshold that people understand, you know, really equal treatment is the way the society is.
I think a poll I saw was 81 percent of the people under 30 believe in marriage equality. So they`re just coming around to accepting where the rest of society`s at. And that`s a good thing. But I think when I`m in Congress and I talk to folks, it really -- I have had Republicans come to my office when the Supreme Court decision came out last year.And I had a Republican come up to me and say, why don`t you and your husband fly out to his district and he would officiate my ceremony? Because he wasn`t sure if I would be recognized under the law living in Wisconsin.
That`s a big thing. And I think society is already there. Elected leaders are finally catching up with where the people are.
MATTHEWS: What do you think is the percentage of voters who have family sympathies, family identities, family relationships that are pro-marriage equality?
I mean, if you just add up the parents of gay -- I try to do the math sometimes. Parents, cousins, brothers, sisters, it would seem to be a pretty strong group of people that have an immediate family connection with the desirability and the celebration really of a gay relationship.
POCAN: Well, hijack absolutely.
And I think that`s why we have had such fast success is that, while for a while, people played on the fear, but once more people came out, you said, well, that`s my cousin, that`s my son, that`s my neighbor. And you know what? We`re just as boring as everybody else. We`re not that myth that people somehow happen to have of what a gay person was.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Well, we can talk about that, because I do believe, Congressman, that the imagery of the very sort of buttoned-down regular sort of couple coming down the steps from a church or whatever, a justice of the peace`s office, is a very comforting picture for a lot of people.
I think Steve may have said it, I really believe that picture, that it`s just like us. You know what I mean? Well said.
(LAUGHTER)
POCAN: Absolutely.
MATTHEWS: Thank you, Steve Elmendorf. And congratulations on your guts all those years.
And, Congressman Mark Pocan of Madison, Wisconsin, and elsewhere nearb
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